(no subject)

[lollardfish]

Can anyone more knowledgeable than I point out any examples of the Vilification Tennis show doing productive social satire - that is, making fun of something in order to demonstrate its impropriety or nonsensical nature?

I'm seeing excuses that I shouldn't be offended at their upcoming show because it's productive social satire.

I think it's just an excuse and the show isn't about satire, it's about getting laughs by being as mean as possible. They are really good at it. They get a lot of laughs. I think they're kidding themselves about the satire, but I'm not that familiar with their shows.

Comments

[techdragon.livejournal.com]

I can get you in contact with some of their members who I am friends with... I have not actually seen a show though.

[groomporter.livejournal.com]

I as I think I said on Facebook I have only seen the show at festival, which is just insult tennis, I haven't seen the off-site "themed" shows, but
their are excerpts of some of them on Youtube that you can check out.

[(Anonymous)]

I am on the cast of Vil Tennis and the following is my opinion and does not reflect or represent the other jerks in Vil Tennis.
I personally do not care about providing "productive social satire". I am not even sure I understand what that is suppose to mean.
My job is to make people laugh. I do my job and I do it well. I'm not doing shows to make statements.

Mark L

[mamajenzie.livejournal.com]

I just made a post a few hours ago on my perspective of all of this on my lj. It's a locked down blog, and for many reasons, but buttonlass has access to it, and I give permission for her to share it with you.

I seriously thought about preventing comments, but I feel everyone should get to say their piece. Just know that the post is not about you, us, them, sides, or whatever else. It is about me and my experience, about how I view vilification and what means I use it for. It has nothing to do with anyone except me.

And yes, I certainly do use the r-word. I have sometimes been called a "tame" vilifier, but that doesn't make me any less of a vilifier. :)

[akitrom.livejournal.com]

I am reminded of Don Imus and the Rutgers' Women's Basketball controversy. At the time, the aspect of it that landed Imus in such hot water was the perception that he was being nasty to people who were not celebrities, not behaving badly, and who were innocent of any cause of his malice.

Unlike, oh, Mel Brooks and Hitler.

[petsnakereggie.livejournal.com]

I do not feel that what we do is social satire. I don't know where this has come from but I've never said it. I don't believe I am fooling myself about our show.

What we do is comedy. We do a specific kind of comedy that is not for everyone and that is why we are popular.

However, I feel that the moment we say "no, we can't go there" we have a problem. When we are willing to make fun of any topic, we are making it really clear that we don't mean anything we say. The minute we say "oh, we can't try a joke on that topic," we imply that we mean the jokes we are making on the other topics.

We don't. We don't mean any of it. We simply use offensive material to entertain our audience.

Our audience has a social contract with us that says "we know you are going to go places that make us uncomfortable. We know you are going to make jokes about things society says are not supposed to be funny." I point that out at the beginning of every show. Within the context of our show, we take chances that are going to offend some people and they need to be OK with that or they shouldn't come.

We also pay attention to our audience and if they respond negatively to a type of joke, we stop doing it. There is a feedback loop at our shows that involve us trying stuff out and our audience responding positively or negatively so we know which jokes are going to fly and which ones aren't.

If you want me to defend the show as "productive social satire," I won't do that. I believe there is some of that. I think that there was a lot of that in our political shows last year. I don't believe that social satire is the primary thrust of what we do.

Hate us or not - we are what we are. I can't change that or our show wouldn't work. Our goal is to make people laugh. That's it.

I'm sure I'm going to get raked over the coals for saying what I'm saying. I accept that or I wouldn't have chosen to post. I'm in charge of the show - I accept responsibility for what we do.

As a caveat - if I don't respond to someone who responds to me, I apologize. I certainly hope to respond as much as possible. However, I only have so many hours in the day to engage in online conversation. If you just want to tell me what a horrible person I am, that is groovy. I can take it but I probably won't respond.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

*Two* separate invocations of Godwin to one post. Two.

K.

[jmanna.livejournal.com]

If you spend your entirely life battling a word you're going to waste your life fighting. And not the good kind of fighting that brings awareness, the kind of chewing on the bars of the cage fighting that just bring constant turmoil to your life. Bring awareness is one thing. Brow beating your friends and implying malice because they don't agree with you.

To me, you've passed beyond bring awareness into a battle to be right. No matter what words are typed here, your wife was very upset and hurt. I hate to say this but life being what it is, she will be again. And people will be mean to your son. Because people suck.

You seem to want to win. What I've seen is a pick and chose of various explanations presented to you in a method of trying to disprove them all. Nobody said these were excuses or reasons for your permission. They simply said they were their reasons. You added the concept of 'defensive'. Many of those involved have said they are regretful that your family is hurting but they are not seeking your permission. Because that seems to be what this is all about. Permission.

You have stated you find other instances of derogatory speech (not necessarily about those will mental disabilities) satirical. I'm sure there's someone personally effected by those instances that finds such satire offensive. I will bring up South Park again. You said you don't find it always funny but you find it permissible satire. Is it satirical because it's so ridiculous? Or is it permissible because it's a cartoon? I find what is done in the few Vilification shows I've seen at the BLB to be complete ridiculous. If anyone watches that show thinking anyone on that stage is serious they are easily fooled.

You seem to imply malice in people's use of the word. People have repeatedly said their intent is humor and nothing is said with malice.

Think about this way. I am overweight. I have had people hang out of cars and call me Fat Ass. I have been told by people that I'm 'too fat to be wearing that'. And this is recently, not in school. I have watched friends make jokes like 'I went to the (S&M) floor and all I saw was naked fatties'. I have watched piles of vilification jokes about fat mothers and fat people. Some of them do hurt. Some of the flippant comments made by people I know about my weight have made me cry. Is it okay to make fat jokes because I'm fat and could just lose the weight and therefor it's my fault?

Yes, I do want people around me to think before they default to fat jokes. I want everyone around me to think before they go for any cheap laugh that just pokes fun at a physical aspect of someone. But humor is humor. Do I think no one should make fat jokes? Hell no. The rest of the world doesn't need my permission.

"You're mama's so fat she bends light." That right there is funny. Come on, it's a thinker even.

We laugh at the different. We laugh out of discomfort. We laugh at the ridiculous. We laugh because we are presented a twist of thought on something we recognize. Sometimes we don't laugh because we don't think it's funny.

I just don't find Stephen Colbert funny. I think he's this over-the-top clown and his jokes are obvious and tedious. I have friends that love his humor. I do not expect them to dislike his humor because I do. Even if he makes fat jokes. Which he does.

Humor is so very subjective. You have to just trust people's intent (which numerous people have stated regarding Vilification is not malice) and move on. If you want them to change their sense of humor you're going to fight a losing battle.

[ethel.livejournal.com]

I'm totally late to the game on this one.

I stumbled upon this just tonight, and I read the entire thing through. I'm glad to see that you and Tim were able to exchange thoughts and feelings in a productive, respectful way -- that was actually really good to see.

I don't really thing I can add anything useful that others (particulary Tim in his exchange with you) haven't already said, but I did want to seriously and sincerely thank you for sharing what must be an emotionally wearying series of thoughts, feelings, and words for you.

I spent about 30 minutes reading this, and it was 30 minutes well-spent all around, and I feel I have a more well-fleshed appreciation for others' viewpoints, and that is always ALWAYS a good thing. We may have slightly different stances on humor, but I really believe that our fundamental viewpoints on life, humanity, and respect have more similarities than differences.

Laurie Richardson -- VT performer for 5-6 years now.