(no subject)

[lollardfish]

There's a post out there today of a "friend" (not someone I actually know that well) who has been out of touch with LJ.

He's asking for updates because, "If there's something you've been assuming I know because you wrote about it on LJ and in the past I've reliably read your LJ, you might want to point it out to me. Alternately, you can just regard me as the retard in the corner who never knows what's going on."

I find this metaphor infuriating and offensive, although I know that as with most such things he means nothing by it. What's the best response? Ignore? Post something publicly in comments? Send a private email? Write an LJ post of my own about how offensive I find it and hope someone reads it?

What do you think?

Edit - I posted what I hope was both a polite and firm comment.

Comments

[txanne.livejournal.com]

That made me twitch too, but I don't know him well enough to call him on it. I'd say send a private email, but I don't know if he reads emails from relative strangers--so in this one case, I'd put something in the comments.

[rani23.livejournal.com]

Private email would be my vote.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

The question is whether he reads it. He must get a lot of mail ... I've jammed with this person and exchanged emails with him in the past, but only when I've been on his radar.

And then there's the corrective issue - if I post publicly in comments, others might read them and think about how they talk.

I dunno.

[cari-rose.livejournal.com]

I would let him know, politely but firmly.

[davidschroth.livejournal.com]

What do you think?

I think you should wait at least 24 hours before doing anything. It's possible that you won't feel so strongly about it after a cooling off period.

My own take is you'll still feel strongly about it after waiting. So, how would you prefer that he phrase things? Draft a sentence that conveys the same/similar meaning, and then write him something along the lines of:

"In your post, you said this. While I don't think you meant any harm by your phrasing, I am not alone in finding such phrasing offensive. Perhaps you would consider saying something along the lines of 'insert your preferred wording here' in the future."

I'd put it in the comments, not because you want to publicly chide the person, but because the potential audience that might benefit is larger.

Mind, it's not clear that I'm in any position to offer useful advice on this subject.

[mia-mcdavid.livejournal.com]

I'd go with the private email. You can't rely on him to read your LJ post; he's made that clear already.

[guppiecat]

You can't change people.

Odds are that whatever you do, be it a post or an email, you will not prevent him from mentally classifying certain people as "retards". At best, you may be able to get him to relabel the bucket as something else. I suspect that this would not be the outcome that you are desiring.

If you truly care to fight this battle with him, your best bet is to draw him into a long-term situation where he exposed to people that he is classifying this way and show him that they're not the people he thinks they are. This could be very difficult.

If you choose to fight this battle publicly (which is where I really think you're wanting to go), posting a response to his post would likely not prevent him from thinking of things in this way in the future, nor would it really impact many others except to further widen the gap between the people that think like you and those that do not. A longer-term approach might work better, where you gradually and over time, tell the stories of people who would ordinarily be classified as "retards" and "idiots", and why those classifications are incorrect.

It would take a lot of energy and time, but if you're serious about dealing with the problem, that'd be the way.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

See, I think he's just being casually thoughtless. I think many offensive comments don't emerge from real racism, or homophobia, or, in this case, casual disregard for the mentally disabled - it comes from thoughtlessness.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

i agree about waiting twenty four hours to cool off, but then, were i you, i'd post something along the lines of "my wife, my retard son, and i have been yadayadawhatever. by the way, my son really does have downs, although we don't talk about him or about others as 'retards', and we don't keep him in the corner."

of course, i am not primarily noted for my tact. however, that may shock them into realizing that, you know, he's talking about real people he knows.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's not really my style ...

[guppiecat]

I agree that there is casual thoughtlessness in his language, but I think that the fact he posted it indicates a fundamental way of thinking about people that is the real problem. (Granted, I think we all do this to a certain extent.) My thinking is that it was the fundamental thought process that bothered you, i.e. what the language represented, not the language itself and that changing the language wouldn't really help all that much.

I may, of course, have been projecting my reaction upon you. If that was the case, you have my apologies.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

You may well be right.

I just figure that if you can change speech, feelings follow slowly over time. And that you can change speech but not how people think, by in large, so focus on the possible.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to know it made you twitch too. I am obviously more sensitive than others.

[txanne.livejournal.com]

I've become more sensitive since Nico's birth.

[guppiecat]

Yours is a common strategy. I generally believe that changing the words doesn't really help much, as the change calls attention to the words (instead of the issue), and new words are coined to be just as hurtful as the ones that were replaced.

Of course, this is just a general belief of mine (based on limited and personal observation), and not one that I've put a lot of time and thought into. I could well be wrong.

We may need a sociologist to run a study on this. ;)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know anything about the person, and I certainly have no intention of defending rude, inappropriate or insensitive language. However, with that said, I can remember a time when "retard" was considered almost acceptable and often "funny". We know better now, there are so many hurtful words out there, and as a culture, we are slowly starting to "get it". Still, though, in certain age groups, and mind sets, these words are not considered "bad".

I think the appropriate response is measured, as it should be always. Perhaps a reminder to this person that what they said was hurtful, not only to some shadowy non-specific group "out there", but to someone that is a respected friend and/or acquaintance. Reminding them that it is not acceptable in our society today, to use words like that in such a hurtful way. Chances are good that the person doesn't even realize that this is true. The phrase may be conditioned from years of use to meaninglessness for them. As I said, I am not trying to excuse it, and you have more than enough right to be offended, as should we all, but maybe the person just needs a gentle reminder.

There is also the possibility that the person has no social graces, and cannot recognize when insult or injury have been given. I'm sure we all know a few of those. Again, I think, a reminder of the unacceptable language and hurtful nature of the comment would be more appropriate than a full frontal attack. Certainly, posting a response on LJ for all to read may also help to enlighten the others out there who may not realize that it is a problem to use language so indiscriminantly. Maybe a polite email to the person explaining that the word is unacceptable. Then, if the response is still rude or hurtful, more action might be called for.

I think it's always best to assume that someone is just acting ignorantly, and can be educated, rather than to assume malice at the outset.

Just my 2 cents...

[neugotik.livejournal.com]

I try to confront people right in the moment myself - prob. something like "I find that statement offensive" would've come out of me - but then (?) If I don't know someone I might just ignor it rather then tussle sometimes/depends on my mood and how secure I'm feeling at the time. If you can/will see them in person I'd say it in person. If not that then email - with a title that will refer to him/her to catch their attention (your comment the other day at *blank*) something so they want to open it (if they care about you they will).

good luck

anonymous...

[lakeboy-55.livejournal.com]

Grrrr..., that's yet another instance of my posting a comment and having it end up being "anonymous without my intent. Why does it do this in some posts and not others. It's driving me crazy! In some posts I have to enter my username and password, and type in the pictures words to leave a comment, even though I am logged in. What's up with that? It never used to do this. Sorry for the rant.

Just to make it clear, the "anonymous" comment was from me, Lakyboy_55.

[smellingbottle.livejournal.com]

I'd post a polite comment pointing out the general offensiveness of this metaphor. That you have particular reasons for being sensitised to it doesn't invalidate the general point that this is fairly vile thing to say.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

I did more or less that. Thanks to all for advice.

[mizzlaurajean.livejournal.com]

In such cases I think it's our job as parents to point these things out to others.

Whether it relates to disabilities or adoption you and I will always be in that boat of having to decide when to speak up and how to best convey the message.

Yesterday I realized I have to stop saying "orphanage" and start saying "baby home" Because one implies a home where children are cared for and the other only focuses on that lack of a family. As factual as "orphanage" may be it says something completely different to our future child. Not that we can't use the word but when talking about where they lived before being with us it seems like "baby home" in general is the way to go. This was driven home by listening to the family that brought their two young children to our class to talk about their experience.

My point is it's a constant process for us and those around us.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

I was a little upset that 39 people commented on that post with no one else saying anything about the metaphor. I was, I admit, hoping someone else would step up, maybe someone for whom it was less raw.

I didn't know about baby home. I'll work on that.

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

I'm really touched by this fact, by the way.

[neogrammarian.livejournal.com]

lol, boy you Do work at a Catholic school, don't you?

Seriously, I'd ask if he's a) still in gradeschool or b) still in 1982, and if a)'s the case give him a stern talking to and no dinner, if b's the case, it may be hopeless, and if neither are the case he's gotta get w/the 21st century.

But, then, my father raised us w/the ?sage fatherly advice: 'words mean things, kids, and if you don't watch what you're saying, people're gonna think you're stupid." So I may have a rather more dogmatic view of this situation than others.

Re: anonymous...

[neogrammarian.livejournal.com]

lj's been playing w/me that way the past week or so as well, fwiw.