lollardfish | (no subject)

Is he deciding against the few things he was previously liking?

K.

Yes. We essentially are down to yoghurt, pretzels, some fruit, oatmeal, and cookies. It's entirely behavioral (we think) as we have food both hard and soft (so its not texture issues), salty and sweet.

But there's basically no food left. It's completely erratic. And he's whining whenever confronted by any other food.

And it's not even reliably the sweets. Peaches - gone. Pears - gone. Bananas - gone. Grapes were good for 4 minutes today, then gone.

And I'm not handling it well on the inside, though I am laboring to handle it well on the outside.

I am sorry this is stressful for you! I expect that he'll come out of this period resuming his interest in old favorites, just as nearly all toddlers do. When Sharon commented a while back to the effect that by the time they're 4 all they eat is mac and cheese, she was being accurate.

It is upsetting, but it is also normal. Have you googled "toddler eating preferences" or similar?

K.

We have done a lot of internet research, Shannon's read various books, and today we talked to our developmental therapist (we've been talking to her all along, of course), and she's going to get us into a food therapy group/program.

The question is what is normal and what is exacerbated by his delayed levels of expressive and receptive communication? Or, is there in fact some kind of extremely minor sensory issue (sensory issues are entirely typical of down syndrome) that we haven't diagnosed? Does he understand what we're saying? Is he communicating but we're missing it? Is it just him wanting candy? And it's rapidly deteriorating.

I've rewritten this comment about five times, trying for the right balance of not appearing to trivialize your concerns, being supportive, and assuring you that he isn't starving. I haven't hit it, so please take this as being what I've just outlined.

It isn't unusual for kids to go through periods of wanting only 5 foods, or 3 or even 1, and refusing any others even if they're hungry. The few things Nico will still eat offer more balance than what some kids pick. I don't think anyone knows what causes this. My own theory is that it's a way of exploring their control--or lack of it--over their environment, but what do I know?

It's a reasonable theory. How to respond to it, though, is still unclear. Ignore? Only give the things he wants? Never give the things he wants? Give the things he wants sometimes? Offer him three things and then end the meal when he rejects? Offer him everything until he eats something? the options are infinite and none are satisfying.

Does he communicate what he wants at all? I see you mention above the possibility that you're missing it, but are you seeing any communication of wants?

If it were me--and that's what I mean, not "if I were you"--I would give him anything he asked for (if it's candy or something like that, a tiny bit; if it's something healthy, a good portion), and along with it, offer other things. I would try my best not to communicate that it mattered to me in the least what he ate or didn't eat. I would let him see me eating things he refused, and I would make "yummy" signs about it. (Surely there's a "yummy" sign?!?!?)

I would do these things too. I'd also offer several kinds of food at every meal, and if he rejects all, so be it.

K.

For how many days? If you knew he was eating, say, only oatmeal, would you present oatmeal with every meal? Every other meal? One meal a day?

If you knew that presenting yoghurt or graham crackers would mean he absolutely would not eat anything else in that session, would you present yoghurt or graham crackers every meal? Every other meal? Only after eating something else?

These are the kinds of questions in which we are lost.

Well, I'd offer a little bit of the things we had in the house that I think he will like, whether that's bananas or noodles or whatever, a few choices, so that he can select them if he wants to. And then I'd go down the list towards what he's known to eat reliably. This would end up with him being offered oatmeal, yogurt, or graham crackers at every meal, clearly.

I would be very mindful of avoiding thinking, "he's just outwaiting me on the Brussels sprouts because he knows I'll give him the graham crackers eventually." I am aware of food struggles in families where the children are almost all grown and I would wish so much for that path to be one your family does not take.

K.

Oh, I am soooooo with K. on that last sentence!!!

Yeah.

I'm stressed both about dinner in an hour and dinner in four years, at the same time.

It's dis-pleasant.

I don't know how to not think such thoughts when they seem so evidently true. I try to de-emphasize each meal time and just set him down with smiles and music (not so much today because of the 9 hours of whining).

It will be interesting to see how he handles Laura over the next week, since a lot of the problem is presumably contained in our parental-child dynamic.

It would help me to avoid such thoughts by replacing them with, "this is how we're handling this phase as he grows up" and "if he is choosing his own foods, that's a step forward," and "I better wipe up that oatmeal before it hardens into a crust that's tougher than cement."

Plus thinking about the excellent meal of my own I'll be having after I'm done feeding him.

K.

mmmm ... hot dogs.

:-)

K.

I suspect that a person could live healthily for quite a long time on oatmeal, yoghurt, and graham crackers.

Here's one important thing parents have to learn to accept: short of becoming abusive, a parent cannot force a child to eat. It can't be done.

Yeah. That was a hard transition from infancy (where you could, eventually, just get a taste on his lips and convince him it was time to eat) to toddlerhood.

He does say yes or no. One way to solve the problem is to present him with every possible food item until he signs yes. OTOH, that conflicts with one strong set of parenting advice (see Sharon's comment below. She's right, that's usual). The communications, though, are REALLY clear. What they aren't are nouns (items of food) that would communicate need and allow us to communicate back (three bites of chicken, then cookie) in the usual parent way, although I've been trying to create that vocabulary.

We've certainly tried things along with your method. He usually enjoys feeding me his dinner, although today it's been crying at the sight of the food he doesn't want, then all smiles and beaming. It's a manipulation, but again, knowing that doesn't make the response clear.

Well, Sharon says "healthy choices only," and I said "a tiny bit" of candy or such if that's what he wants--I don't think these are too far apart, and you could go either way.

But it looks to me as if K., Sharon, and I are saying pretty much the same things, and that's an awful lot of parenting years there.

Is he losing weight, or otherwise showing signs of being undernourished? If so, then you might indeed have a problem. I hope that your food therapist will be able to help you determine first whether this truly is a problem in terms of his nutrition, or just a difficult interaction between parent and child.

The usual advice for kids going through a picky period is to offer them only healthy choices (no candy, etc.) for a fixed period of time, take away whatever they don't eat, and not make a big deal about it. The foods that he is willing to eat sound pretty healthy except for the cookies.

Is he drinking milk? That's a significant source of calories and nutrition of course, so if he drinks milk that's good. But it is also possible that he is drinking too much milk or juice, which is depressing his appetite for other foods.

Whether or not the usual advice applies is a subject we are not qualified to answer at this point, but are working on it. Also, there is mutually conflicting advice out there, as in all things related to child-rearing.

He is not, yet, undernourished.

It is not an over-abundance of milk/juice issue. Or, indeed, an appetite issue. He'll be ravenous and sit there crying because it's not the food he wants (even though it's food he's eaten before).

Sigh.

Not trying to be smarter than you about your dear little boy, and most kindly meant: How do you know he's ravenous?

K.

I know all of you are working to be helpful! :)

He signs "eat" with great intent and repetition, cries, then signs eat again.

Also, he didn't really eat yesterday afternoon or evening, then slept through the night, and woke up hungry.

When he cries, is that at an offered food that he then doesn't eat?

K.

In this case. The crying at food on sight is a new level of dysfunction just appearing. It's presumably a sign we're creating greater stress in the situation.

That's pretty fraught for you. Does he get to help choose what he's offered? Hold him while browsing fridge or pantry, so he can see what there is?

K.

I've been thinking about that. It's also been recommended to have him help "make" it, which I've tried, but it hasn't really made a difference. He does like pushing buttons though.

Henry likes to see what's in the fridge, is why I thought of it. Nico could certainly push a few microwave buttons before meal time, even if not heating up something!

K.

And even the cookies might be pretty healthy, depending on ingredients. "Cookie" covers a lot of territory (or can be made to do so!).

There are even Breakfast Cookies. Complete with bacon!

Yes, I know. That's not the point about what's going on right now. On the non-bacon front, good for you for getting help in figuring out how to deal with this aspect of Nico's toddlerhood. And yes, it sounds like

mizzlaurajean's visit is very timely in that it will give you more information on this.

Good luck, and may more enjoyable mealtimes soon be yours!

The cookies in question are fig newtons and blueberry newtons. Not so bad in comparison to chocolate chip.

(deleted comment)

This is what all parents say, and I believe them. Yet it's so hard and I'm not sure why. I think it might be because of the overall, grand scheme, communication issues, of which this becomes a particularly problematic example.

I was a total b*tch. I'd give my daughter the opportunity to express an opinion, took that into consideration, made what I made, put it in front of my her, and if she ate it, great. If not, I'd let her know when the next meal was. She wasn't special needs though, and I don't know how that would work with a special needs kid.

My son, on the other hand (also not special needs) is an absolute monster, mostly due to his father's influence I think. I wanted to take the same tack with him, but my husband is such a soft-hearted guy [read "spineless"] that if the little guy didn't want something he'd make him something else over my objections. Now when it's dinner time, the nine year old is a tyrant. Well, with his dad, anyway. When dad's not home, I don't have a problem with him. He knows that I cook once. Period. OTOH, with him as with my daughter, I take his preferences into account as I plan a meal if I am actually going to cook. Unfortunately he's a PITA to get to bed for much the same reason- dad refused to allow him to self-soothe as an infant, so now he's up disturbingly late on some weeknights. I told my husband he was doing our entire family a disservice, and again he refused to listen. At one year of age, I told him that as that continued, I was refusing to have anything to do with bedtime. I was not going to end up dragged into the power struggle that he was setting up. So for 8 years I haven't been around for bed time unless husband isn't home. Which sucks, cause I really like story time and cuddles when he's not home. And the kid stays in bed too.
Best wishes with figuring out your little guy.

Edited 2009-03-24 22:50 (UTC)

Sweetie. This is tough. We are so in exactly the same place with Younger instead of Elder. The pediatrician is unconcerned as we have a tiny bit more variety/protein in her very very short list of acceptable foods.

However, I have heard of more than one case of similar eating limitations where the issue is actually acid reflux. It's almost impossible to diagnose with an uncommunicative child and I've heard too many cases of it being missed until the child was 'trained' by his reacting body to hate most food. Usually the issues clear up with a bit of prevacid and some eating therapy/intervention. I mention this in case it hasn't been considered -- the list of acceptable foods seem to be mostly things that someone with an acidy tummy/throat would find OK.

I'm glad you're getting expert help. Right now I'd just worry about getting the calories into him (and with yoghurt you've got some good protein going in) and, if possible, try not to stress too much until you speak to the experts.

PS -- I know that 'try not to stress too much' is useless advice when given to ME. It still sometimes helps me stress a bit less.

Yeah. Experts are good. Speech and food therapists, and then to medical professionals if need be.

We're in the process.

Thanks for your thoughts, they are helpful.